Taking the “Dead” out of “Deadlift”
Jon explains how to correctly perform the Deadlift exercise without hurting yourself. this is one of my favorite exercises because it involves the entire body and also strengthens the “core” and the “pelvic tilt”, which as you now know, is very important to developing the wing chun structure.
pay attention to the detail of this exercise and then see how it will relate to the next video that should be out friday.
Jon has an extensive training background and is certified as a “strength and conditioning” coach. you can view his website at http://www.biomechanix.net/
song is “Binge and Purge” by Clutch
38 Responses to “Taking the “Dead” out of “Deadlift””
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Jon & Jin this is great instruction .. thank you guys.
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Congratulations Jon Very good your web site!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Facundo
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Jon Reply:
October 31st, 2009 at 4:06 pm
Thanx Facundo! My website is under construction as well, and is in the process of being completely redone. My site will feature videos on particular exercises and proper instruction. Take care and Peace!
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HI Jin,
Good complimentary advice i like it, got to protect the back and knees so good topics so far. Jon well explained, I notice the weight in the heels!!!
Thanks
Saj
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Jon Reply:
November 2nd, 2009 at 11:05 pm
Thanx Saj!
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As always, Sifu Jin demonstrates that he has a hand for picking quality and presewnting it in a comprehensive way – even if it is not SIfu presenting, but one of his friends.
Superb. Thanks! Specially this one eluded me for a long time since I never got detailed and good insturctions.
With this I feek i can give it another try.
have a nice day
martin
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Awesome. This is a really big fall area for people who like a work out. thanks for helping out!
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Thanks you, sifu Jon and camera guy Jin.
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Jon Reply:
October 31st, 2009 at 4:07 pm
LMAO!
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Jin Reply:
November 1st, 2009 at 11:15 am
lol..nice!
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well done
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Jin Reply:
November 1st, 2009 at 11:16 am
thanks, Ryan!
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Instruction is incorrect and dangerous. Read Starting Strength or watch one of coach Rips videos to learn it properly.
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Jon Reply:
November 2nd, 2009 at 1:22 pm
Hi Blake, are we talking about the same movement? There are several different types of deadlifts, such as Jefferson, straight leg deadlifts, sumo deadlifts. Some powerlifts look similar as well.
I was taught how to do dealifts thru the National Strength and Conditioning Association (NSCA). All Strength and Conditioning Coaches on any Professional or Collegiate sports team must be CSCS certified thru the NSCA.
All pro coaches I know teach deadlifts with these mechanics.
I will certainly look your resource up see what I think.
Thanx for feedback.
Jon J. Weiss CSCS
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james grant Reply:
November 3rd, 2009 at 1:48 pm
I just took a look at the NSCA document on deadlift and it looks like you’re doing it incorrectly even according to it.
Here’s the link for reference:
http://journals.lww.com/nsca-scj/Citation/2000/10000/Exercise__Deadlift.5.aspx
james
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Jon Reply:
November 3rd, 2009 at 11:25 pm
I own that issue, and looks the same as I described, and have been to numerous NSCA conferences. I also used to administer tests that were elegible for Ceu’s for NSCA. Body positions may vary due to femur and tibial length. The lifter in diagram has maintained normal spinal lordosis and scapular stabilization. In starting position knees are slightly past barbell and moves in a straight line up at end phase. There is forward flexion of the spine as you maintain a neutral spine.
Hi guys,
Are you sure that this is the correct form of the deadlift ?
The position of the body should be like this:
http://crossfitrock.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/deadlift-benefits1.png?w=313&h=400
or it will be impossible to lift really heavy weight
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Hi Nicolay. Yes Im sure it’s right. I looked at your info and there is too much anterior flexion in the hips. This will actually make the lift harder, because it places too much of the weightload on the lower back, putting you at a greater risk of herniating a lumbar disk. You want to generate the power from your hips, a larger stronger muscle group. I weigh 160 lbs and go up to 315 lbs on deadlifts with other professional CSCS coaches spotting me. I’m not saying that’s a ton of weight, but it is enough to get seriously injured if not done properly.
You may be able to lift more doing it as your diagram shows, because there is less range of motion that way. Doing it the way I have demonstrated will make you stronger overall and save your lower back. Take a look at the book published by HumanKinetics called “Strength Training” by the NSCA. They are the worldwide authority on the proper biomechanics. Then watch some professional powerlifters on how they execute and lift from the floor, you’ll notice their hips real low to the grind to generate more power while maintaining normal spinal lordosis.
Thanx for question!
Jon J. Weiss CSCS
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Jon, can you post up a video of you deadlifting 315 using the technique you are demonstrating in this video? I am having a hard time visualizing how you will be able to move the bar path around your knees when you start lifting heavier weights. Also, can you post some links of powerlifters using this technique? Even in Olympic lifting, where the pull off the floor is to set up for the second pull and therefore have hips in a lower starting positing than a conventional deadlift, do not have the hips this low, nor do they strive to have their thighs parallel or lower in the bottom position. Hips must be higher than the knees, always.
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SMACK DOWN Reply:
November 5th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
hey hey just wanted to put my 100 bucks in, when i was training for my BJJ meets i trained with a guy named kurt elder he won the state powerlifting title two years in a row and work side by side with a guy named TR who owes pro camp they trained all pro athletes that we all know he easily pulled 6, 45 pound plates per side while having a conversation with me his shines were tore to shit the mistake most people make is they use to much weight before they know how to conduct the exercise properly, the movement is driving with the ass and legs to start hips stay down most people start by sticking the ass straight in the air with no clue that they are putting their backs at risk see it all the time the bar should drag along the shines, most people find it hard to believe they dont know what they are talking about instead of finding out learning and growing they stay closed and stubborn, human trait people are to scared to get past which in turn keeps them from being at the top with the elite, good job jon its good to know not everyone in this world is scared to set out learn and over come, i suggest every one take note of this mans form and look into some serous champion’s form its time to move forward good luck, and for your back god speed.
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Hi Jack, as far as the hips and thighs are concerned, the hips may be higher than the thighs. That is not wrong. I’ll have to look for some links, but in the meantime take a look at the book ” Explosive Lifting for Sports” Harvey Newton, Published by Human Kinetics. Take a look at pg. 62 Squat Snatch and page 76, Power Snatch From the Floor.
As far as the video of me I will post it as soon as my hand heals from a bike crash I had. I know it sounds lame, but I’ll get it up promise!
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“I weigh 160 lbs and go up to 315 lbs on deadlifts with other professional CSCS coaches spotting me.”
How does someone spot a deadlift?
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“You may be able to lift more doing it as your diagram shows, because there is less range of motion that way. Doing it the way I have demonstrated will make you stronger overall and save your lower back.”
There’s so much wrong with this I don’t know if it’s useful to reply, but I’m going to anyway.
Why would being able to lift more weight be a bad thing? The fact that your form allows you to use less weight should be an indication that you’re doing it wrong.
How exactly does the range of motion decrease? The bar goes from down on the floor to hanging from your arms while your body is fully extended. No matter how perfect or crappy your form is, this is pretty much the way it’s gonna be on a deadlift (hyperextending or shrugging not included).
IF there would be a way to decrease the ROM, why would you not like this? It would most likely enable you to lift more weight. Lifting more weight makes you stronger ‘overall’. You should try it.
The NSCA might be the worldwide authority on biomechanics, whatever that means, but apparently they’re not great teachers.
Spotting the deadlift is just epic.. I don’t care much to see you deadlift 315, I’m sure it’s managable even with horrible form, but I would pay for a vid if the spotters stepped in. End Rant.
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One person on each side and one person directly behind lifter.
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Be warned – this is poor deadlift technique. Jon, get a clue and try not to hurt your clients.
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Jon Reply:
November 3rd, 2009 at 11:35 pm
I have been practicing for the past 20 years and worked in a prominent sports medicine clinic in NYC as Head Strength and Condition coach, along side with Physical Therapist and ATC’s. I work primarily with injured patients. Mostly Knee, back, shoulder and neck trauma.
95% of my clients in my practice are referred to me by Ortopedic Specilaists, Physical Therapists, Chiroprators, and MD’s.
Do any of you people have a degree in Physiology, Kinesiology, or a background in Biomechanics. Someone above had no idea what that even was.
And you Grimreaper?
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It doesn’t take a degree in Kinesiology to see that this deadlift technique is just plain ridiculous. Seriously, read ‘Starting Strength’ by Rippetoe and Kilgore, and you’ll do yourself and your clients a favor. What’s more, why spot a deadlift when the lifter can simply drop it back on the bloody ground.
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“Do any of you people have a degree in Physiology, Kinesiology, or a background in Biomechanics. Someone above had no idea what that even was.”
I do not believe you have a degree in physiology and kinesiology.
If you’re referring to my comment ‘The NSCA might be the worldwide authority on biomechanics, whatever that means…’ it doesn’t mean I don’t know what biomechanics are, it means saying an organisation is the authority on biomechanics is BS. It’s not some sort of secret knowledge passed down through generations.
If you primarily work with injured patients, noone is going to complain about the crappy form you teach them are they? They don’t know any better. You’re presenting this instructional video as an exercise for anyone looking to improve their strength, not as a specific exercise for a patient that’s recovering from a couple of shattered lumbar disks.
Get off your high horse and check your facts. Having done something for a long time doesn’t mean you’re right. Especially if you’ve been doing it wrong for 20 years.
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I’ll second what Luco said. Your form may be helpful for people recovering from serious lumbar spine injuries, who are lifting very light weighs. But that is not correct deadlift technique.
Show us a video of you or anyone else using that technique with a heavy load.
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Haha, I just saw the title of this page – “Taking the ‘Dead’ out of ‘Deadlift’”. How appropriate. You’ve certainly done that. This should be called a Squatlift.
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lol…Jon gets to feel what i have to go through now when i make videos! =D
Jon is only sharing what works for him, understand that there are many different kinds of deadlifts. if what you’re doing is contradictory to Jon’s method, there’s nothing wrong with that either, i always say, if it works for you, then keep doing it. researching is also an important key, so taking ideas from other experts such as Rippetoe’s is also a good idea. heck, people in the industry can’t even agree on how deep to squat. so of course there will be different views, the important part is to research your own method and to find what works specifically to you, since we’re all different, some short, some tall, some heavy, some light and the many factors that make us unique will all make something like the deadlift different for each of us.
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I would be content if Jon can provide a link or reference to a single, reputable source that endorses this kind of technique, or provide a single video of someone deadlifting with spotters.
and Jin, to say that this is one of many varieties of deadlift is disingenuous. This is video isn’t presented as ‘how Jon deadlifts’, but rather ‘how everyone should deadlift’. But it’s just plain bad form, no two ways about it.
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epthompson, thanks for calling Jin out.
If Jon had said this is the form he recommends for folks coming off lumbar spine injuries and who are only ready to lift very light weights, then perhaps no one would have taken issue with it. But that’s not how this video was presented.
Again, I’d love to see a video of ANYONE deadlifting heavy with this form – say north of 2x bodyweight. And would love to see a spotter in action on this – if you can find people foolish enough to try and spot this from the side as Jon proposes.
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JIn, The quadracep stretch stretch which your friend Jon shows in this video is incomplete and not really explained fully.
Even more importantly, the ’stretch’ which he shows as a hamstring ’stretch’ is not a stretch. it is outdated old training misinformation which can damage the muscle causing microtrauma which causes muscle scarring and is permanent. The reason it is not a stretch and gives no stretch whatsoever is because the hamstrings CANNOT be stretched in a standing position. This is biomechanically impossibly. Muscles must relax into a stretch to achieve a new current resting length through sliding elongation of sarcomeres. When standing and bending forward..firstly the quads are flexed to hold you up, secondly when you bend forward your hips travel only so far forward (about 40 degrees into an anterior pelvic tilt) before the hamstrings lock up through the glutes and STOP the pelvis from continuing to rotate forward. This is an involuntary reaction of the nervous system then muscles to keep the individual from falling forward so gravity does not pull you down to the floor flat on your face. After the lockup of the pelvis, the individual can only move forward from the waist…(not hips/pelvis) this pulls on the low back and can over time cause many problems like sciatica,herniated discs, other nerve issues etc..etc..
The reason the muscles cannot silde and elongate (through the action of the actin and myosin proteins ‘underlapping’ perpindicularly and sliding out, which allows for the individual muscle fibers to slide out longer and STAY LONGER for 4 to 6 hours before shortening up again which is a true stretch)….is because
they are flexed and working, expending energy which will not allow for the sliding elongation to occur. Although this improper ’stretch’ is not a stretch at all, you can see the gradual lowering of the hands more and more as you hang them in front of your body. They will lower, closer and closer to the feet…BUT, this is not a stretch, it is an ECCENTRIC CONTRATION of the hamstrings, so the muscles will literally PULL OUT longer(like a rubber band being pulled from both ends) however, when you stand back up, within 10 seconds, the muscles will go back to the same length they were before you bent forward with hands hanging down. You can test this yourself and if you try the ’stretch’ again after 10 seconds or so, you will notice the first STOPPAGE/HALTING of the hands/arms as you bend and hang forward, is in the same place as it was just 15 seconds or so before. So, no stretch was achieved.
A proper stretch will leave the muscle elongated for TIME as I stated before (4 to 6 hours) before tightening back up again. This will give you a new current resting length of your hamstrings. You can compare this not to a rubber band being pulled longer but more like an old radio antenna being extended out, where after being pulled longer, it will STAY after you stop pulling it.
Anyhow, hamstring stretches are achieved by sitting on the floor.
There are a few positions to achieve this.
There are several publications written by experts which show these.
I recommend one in particular which is an excellent manual and written by the
podiatric surgeon and lower body specialist Dr. Steven D. Stark MD.
The title is: ” The Stark Reality of Stretching” . You will learn the proper stretching positions and methods for the most important areas of the body to stretch daily, the LEGS. You will also gain knowledge as to how the body functions in these regards.
Your friend Jon is trying to help people and I applaud that, but teaching improper methods can be dangerous to his clients/students and please pass this information along to him. I have been a trainer for 21 years and I am also a martial arts instructor specialising in self defense and have been taught by Dan Inosanto, Rick Tucci, Keith Mazza of Traditonal Wing Chun. Sifu Pete Pajil of Moy Yat Wing Chun etc, etc. I also have black belt levels in other arts such as Taekwond/Hapkido … I am 44 and I like to do things properly after much research. I have spoken to and interviewed and read from surgeons and physiotherapists and physical therapists and sports physicians all over the world and I cross reference and test everything myself before I ever relate any of that information to any of my clients/students.
Good luck in your training and I enjoy your youtube channel and this co-site.
Peace.
Kevin
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Jin Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 5:16 pm
hey Kevin, whew, that’s a long read, but i’m glad for your input, i’ll take a look at the article by Steven Stark, glad to have you here sharing your views, peace!
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Junfan Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 5:27 pm
It was not an article Jin…it is a stretching manual-BOOK…by Dr. Stark.
You can get it at any Barnes and Noble or Borders books etc..
Peace.
Kevin
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Also Jin…(Jon specifically), as I stated in my reply/comment regarding proper stretches for the hamstring…The hamstrings cannot be stretched in any standing position…and in my explanation I used the tip toe touch as an example of a NON-stretch technique….but specifically the way your friend Jon does it in the video with one leg propped up on something…is just as bad as the toe touch but even worse because not only are you standing (cannot stretch hams) but you simply cause MORE tightening of the hams (restricting a stretch even further and risking even more microtrauma in the hams) because the leg is leaning down on something so you are fighting against hamstrings which are pulled tigher and when you lean forward at all, they flex against you which prohibits any stretch. You can only CONTRACT them in this position, just as with the toe touch.
What he is doing in this video is an outdated dangerous move (’stetch’) called the ‘ballet stretch’. Ballet dancers have shortened careers of only 4 to 7 years on average partially because of doing these types of stretches which cause damage to nerves which have caused many ballet dancers to have so much nerve damage in their sciatica and other nerves that they have lost control of their functions of relieving themselves. They therefore are relagated to wearing DIAPERS because of lack of control of those nerve areas. Note that these people are in their 30’s usually! Not good.
Anyhow, please see a good publication by a reputable expert in the field such as surgeon Dr Stark’s book as I had mentioned in my last post.
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By the way Jin…as I stated about Jon’s Quadraceps stretch being incomplete.
(By the way a person should hold the ANKLE when performing that Quad stretch…not the foot and especially not the toes as you can damage the extensor tendons.)
Anyhow, after the first part of the quad stretch as on shows it, the position should be held where you feel FIRST GENTLE TENSION on the center of the Quadraceps muscles….then once that is felt, a person must STOP and hold that position not pulling on the muscles and then do the second part of the Quad stretch which is to very slightly push the hips foward by arching the back slightly and pushing the glutes forward…like a soft, gentle, SLOW thrust of the hips…only an inch or so…..this should be done VERY VERY slowly until there is a slight tension in the upper part of the leg…..once felt..STOP and hold the position…then simply relax and breathe until the gentle awareness of those first tensions fades. it may take 10 seconds…it may take one minute…everyone’s body is different..you cannot time a stretch.
Anyhow Jin/Jon, most people only stretch THREE of the Quad muscles when they stretch(that’s IF they do a stretch properly which most people do not)….but they neglect that SECOND movement which is MANDATORY to stretch the fourth and longest of the QUAD muscles the Rectus Femoris which does NOT insert with a tendon of attachement at the top of the femur but rather it is much longer and inserts into the hip area much higher up!
If this second part of the Quad stretch is not performed each time the quads are stretched\…the gradual and consistent tightening and shortening of that rectus femoris muscle through daily activity can, after years pull the knee joint out of position to where any walking or other activities will cause a gradual wearing away of that misaligned knee joint because the joints there at the knee will have friction and ostoarthritis can develop, etc..etc.. Many people attribute joint propblems in their legs as they get older…to just “old age”…even people in their 30’s and 40’s!! The unfortunate truth is that many of these leg joint issues are simply from shortened leg muscles which are never properly stretched.
Sad but true.
Good luck.
Kevin
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